EPISODE 31: VIKASH DUDHIA, CEO AT ARLO INTERNATIONAL CONSULTING
Vikash Dudhia is the CEO of Arlo International Consulting and works with medical device companies to grow their international footprint. Vikash believes that his particular methodology and skillset enables him to effectively coach teams and individuals in the subtleties of over a hundred markets around the globe. Vikash has over 20 years of experience in international sales and has a network of contacts in over 100 countries in the technology, medical device, pharmaceutical, and dental sectors. Prior to his current consulting role, Vikash was head of sales for North America & Latin America for Prima Dental Group; the largest manufacturer of carbide burs in the world. Prior to that, he was director of international sales for Salter Labs; a US manufacturer of best-in-class respiratory products serving homecare and acute patients in over 75 countries. Prior to that, Vikash had international sales roles at Inspiration Healthcare and Rocket Medical Plc. Vikash holds a Bachelor of Science Honors degree in nursing from DeMontfort University in the United Kingdom and several post-graduate clinical and business qualifications.
Episode’s transcript
Julio Martinez: 0:04
Welcome to the LatamMedTech Leaders Podcast. This is a conversation with MedTech leaders who have succeeded in Latin America. Welcome back to the La MedTech Leaders Podcast. Today our guest is Bash Doria . Hey Bash , welcome to the show. It's great to have you here today.
Vikash Dudhia: 0:24
It's good to be here video and thanks for the invitation.
Julio Martinez: 0:26
Excellent bash . So listeners Bash is the CEO of Arlo International Consulting and works with medical device companies to grow during international footprint. Bash believes that his particular methodology and skillset enables him to effectively coach teams and individuals in the subtle east of over a hundred markets around the globe. Vikash has over 20 years of experience in international sales and has a network of contacts in over a hundred countries in the technology, medical device, pharmaceutical and dental sectors. Prior to his current consulting role, Ash was head of sales for North America and Latin America for Prima Dental Group, the largest manufacturer of carbide birth in the world. Prior to that, he was director of international Salesforce Soldier Labs, a US manufacturer of best in class respiratory products, serving home care and acute patients in over 75 countries. Prior to that big catch had international sales roles at Inspiration Healthcare and Rocket Medical Big catch holds, a bachelor of science honors degree in nursing from the Munford University in the United Kingdom, and several postgraduate clinical and business qualifications. Quite an extraordinary background, big catch . Um, I am really, really honored to have you in the show and I'm sure listeners will get , uh, a lot of wisdom from your experience. So before we get started, I'd like to get to your journey. I mean, in other words, how do you find yourself in Latin America? What happened? What made you transition from UK to Latin America? How do you get involved in the region
Vikash Dudhia: 2:13
<laugh>? Yeah, and it's a great question. Um, and I often wonder how I ended up doing what I do, to be honest , uh, Julio, but you know, really it was by accident, as you quite rightly mentioned earlier on, I started my career as a nurse and then, you know, when I entered the commercial kind of market initially in pharmaceuticals, I was working as a sales representative domestically here in the uk. But as my role developed and as you know, I kind of moved on to different companies, I kind of fell into the international market . So that was the first and then kind of, you know, spreading my wings a little bit internationally , um, I was challenged with finding a distributor or partners in Latin America , uh, specifically starting off with Mexico. So really it was just by accident. I was kind of set a challenge and asked to go and see if we could find someone that we could work with to sell the products and, and really that was it. And at that point, Julio, I had no experience of international sales. I had no experience of working with distributors. I didn't know where to start. Um, so that was the beginning,
Julio Martinez: 3:13
<laugh>. Fascinating. All right , so Vsh , what's your overall perception of Latin America as a place to conduct first in human trials or to commercialize medical technologies? I know that you don't have much experience in clinical research, but uh, if you know something about it, please tell us. If not, no worries. Just move on to the commercial <laugh> aspect of what do you see Latin America as an attractive place to do business?
Vikash Dudhia: 3:39
I think we shouldn't generalize, but in , in terms of a space, a market space, there are so many opportunities not only to kind of work with like-minded people, but also to find new technologies to encourage development research. So really I think from that perspective, there's an opportunity for collaboration first and foremost. Secondly, there's an opportunity to do expand the footprint in terms of getting your product to a wider audience and making sure that people are able to access the products that you have. Kind of looking back over my years of experience, the thing that kind of sticks in my mind about Latin America, I don't want to generalize too much, but is the relationship, the enthusiasm and also the innovation as well in terms of can be done despite some of the challenges that we face, not just in Latin America, but in other parts of the world. But it , it's that kind of willingness to make it work and to find a solution I think is what really kind of sticks in my mind when somebody speaks to me about Latin America.
Julio Martinez: 4:43
Very good. Alright , VASH , what major trends do you see in Latin America that are relevant to our discussion
Vikash Dudhia: 4:52
More recently? You know, what's really come about is the , the whole kind of digital medicine, remote medicine, artificial intelligence. These kind of technologies I think are really going to take off, particularly within the med device , um, sectors. There are a lot of , um, opportunities to kind of develop products but also to sell products and to reach, you know, such a wide audience in Latin America. So from where I'm sitting at the moment, this is where I see the opportunities growing.
Julio Martinez: 5:23
Very good. Okay, so let's get a little deeper into the uh, discussion. Let's dive more into your practical experience commercializing medical technologies in the region. I love to hear your thoughts and suggested best practices. In other words, what actionable pieces of information we can tell from your experience to listeners of the podcast. So the first question that I have for you is in what countries have you worked in Latin America?
Vikash Dudhia: 5:53
So I've been lucky enough , um, earlier to kind of pretty much work across Latin America, probably with the exception of Brazil. But yeah, pretty much most of the other countries I've been able to kind of , um, have a relationship with a distributor or some kind of relationship at least I would say.
Julio Martinez: 6:10
Okay, very good. So in your experience, what was the predominant model or GoTo market or market access strategy that companies had in the region? In other words, do you have a proactive and well thought out strategy where you created a market access plan for each country you were planning to enter? Or did you have an opportunistic or reactive approach? We're just waiting for the shooter to contact you and then do something with them and see if they could sell something in that country?
Vikash Dudhia: 6:42
Yeah , that's a great question and I look back over my experience in the various roles that I've held with different companies and I have to be honest, in the beginning it was just going out and without any methodology, without any strategies at all, to be honest. Just going out to see if I could find somebody that I was able to work with. As time has gone by and I've kind of gained in more experience, there's been a little bit more of a process and plan in place, specifically in terms of finding the right partner, the right distributor. But if I kind of jump back to the beginning, I remember my first trip to Mexico, I had no real plan. I attended a congress just to see who was there and if I could meet some potential distributors and, and have a conversation with them. So really it just kind of started off like that, but over time become a little bit more subtle and we have technology at hand now so we can look for information, we can speak to peers and colleagues. The key thing is really to speak to as many people as you can to get as much information as you can for whatever resources you have available. My key strategy now is that good distributors, good partners are well known and respected and so you will find them. What's essential is to qualify them yourself and that qualification is really important. You can take a recommendation from someone else, somebody that's working in the same industry as yourself will say, ah , you know , these guys are good. Um, you should work with them, that's great. And then having that recommendation is very valuable, but I would still urge people to do their own qualification and make sure that that fit is right for you, for your organization, for your product, and for the market that you want to enter. And so really, you know, that kind of fine tuning has happened in my personal experience over the years as I've learned and gained more knowledge. But you know, in the beginning it was just really going out there without any plan in place just to try and find out as much as I could. And in time you start to make more connections and your network grows across the landscape and then you get to hear about things that which are important for you in terms of the relationships that you need to have with your distributors.
Julio Martinez: 8:48
Okay, excellent. So in essence , the, the good ones will pop up, the names will pop up, and you have to conduct due diligence and that's absolutely key. Yes .
Vikash Dudhia: 8:58
And I also would add that obviously the ones who have been successful will be the ones which, you know , rise to the top, but don't disregard the smaller companies as well. It's more about the fit and the qualification. It's important to give that opportunity to all of those discussions that you're going to have with, you know, all of those different companies and distributors. So don't rule people out. You know, I've been in those situations before where I've had conversations with distributors who probably aren't that well known , but actually the fit was great and that the network that they had, because at the end of the day, really what you want , um, your distributors to do is to represent you in that market as if it was you. And so if they're able to do that justice to your product and deliver the, the information about your product with the same enthusiasm and the passion that you have about your product, then you are off to a great start, I think.
Julio Martinez: 9:50
Okay. All right . So did you have a hands-off management approach where you just sold products to the distributor and let it do the rest of on its own? Or do you have a hybrid approach where you had a local or clinical sales agent or even a local office in a country to support the work of the shooter ?
Vikash Dudhia: 10:12
Yeah, I think my approach has been somewhere between kind of that , I wouldn't say hands off , it's never been hands off , but I've never been in a situation where I've had a local representative or an office. So it's kind of somewhere between the hands off and having somebody, my personal style is always , always been very consultative. And what I mean by that is that it's a mutual agreement in terms of what the expectations are. So if you start with those expectations right from the beginning, then you shouldn't expect any surprises. You should know what everyone's mutual part is and what part they play in that whole collaboration. So if you start with that, then it's much easier to manage everyone's expectations. It's much easier to manage the conversation going forward. And it's always been more of a relationship type collaborative approach as I mentioned earlier, rather than a completely hands off or having somebody there kind of the micromanagement style. It's always been um, somewhere in between. And really that collaborative approach has worked very well for me personally I would say, because it is the mutual benefit in having that kind of relationship.
Julio Martinez: 11:16
Okay. So let's discuss demand generation in some detail. Have you been involved in the strategies and tactics to increase demand from the end user and ultimately boost sales?
Vikash Dudhia: 11:29
Yeah, various strategies depending on the different types of products and different kind of market sectors that I've been working in. And each market, I have to say is very specific and , and that's why I'm always hesitant to kind of generalize. I think you have to be in tune with what's going on on , you have to listen to what your partners are , your distributors are saying you need to understand what's going on in the marketplace and then just take a little bit of time to reflect to understand what your approach should be. And so that's always been the starting point for me and I would, you know, highly recommend that standpoint. Then in terms of kind of getting further market access, it depends on what you want to achieve and how quickly you want to get there and what resources you have. And then once you've kind of considered all of those things, then you can decide how to kind of proceed. So I can give you an example that I was working with some very niche neonatal products and in that marketplace it was important to have a more of a kind of clinical approach to kind of building momentum and growing market space. So doing more training and education with the clinicians rather than your standard marketing and kind of promotion sales promotions type scenarios that we often we, we kind of find ourselves in using various different techniques has been useful .
Julio Martinez: 12:50
So it all depends on the product and in the market.
Vikash Dudhia: 12:53
Yeah, absolutely. And and I would always say, you know, if you qualify then your qualification of your distributor well enough, they should be a great resource in terms of helping you understand what is going to be the best approach. And I would say that if you've chosen the right distributor who has the right network connections within the sector that you are working in, then they should be in tune with what's going to work and what's gonna be successful. So I would utilize all of that resource and experience and then come to a plan that works for everyone.
Julio Martinez: 13:24
Okay, Vic, thanks for that. All right , so let's talk about pricing. What's your feeling about pricing in Latin America? Is it a price sensitive region?
Vikash Dudhia: 13:34
Yeah, absolutely. And I think, you know, everyone has an impression that certain markets are more price sensitive than others and to a certain degree that's true, resources are finite, but at the end of the day, everyone wants the best price, right? So yeah, it is a price sensitive market and quite rightly so, people want to get the best deal, I think ways and means around that. Um, definitely and and that's where it's important that you are able to kind of deliver the real benefits of the product and what it will deliver for the patient. 'cause we all have to remember there's a patient at the end of the line , uh, whatever product we're dealing with. But yes, it is a price sensitive market, but for me personally, it's never been a barrier to the market and I think that's important to stress.
Julio Martinez: 14:16
Okay. So big . Um, have you had experience getting reimbursement in Latin America?
Vikash Dudhia: 14:22
No, not so much. That's not something I've been heavily involved with Julio.
Julio Martinez: 14:26
Okay. That's usually the job of the distributor to try to, to get reimbursed for products. Okay.
Vikash Dudhia: 14:32
That's right.
Julio Martinez: 14:34
Alright , what about the importation process? What's been your experience shipping products and importing or nationalizing products in the different countries?
Vikash Dudhia: 14:42
I mean, generally it's fairly smooth. I always take guidance from the distributor that I'm working with because again, if, if you've done your due diligence like you mentioned earlier on, you've qualified them correctly, you , they should be in a position to be able to recommend and suggest and guide you in terms of the implementation kind of regularities and procedures and protocols. And I would always seek their guidance. There are other companies that can help you do that. Of course I've never really come unstuck where, you know, I've not been able to get the product to its destination because of importation issues. But you have to be mindful of that and you have to keep abreast of what's changing. 'cause often things change very quickly and again, there are lots of organizations out there, companies and individuals that can help you and guide you through that process.
Julio Martinez: 15:33
Yeah, I'd like to make a quick comment here. Most of the countries, at least the top countries in or the top markets in the region have free trade agreements with the us with the Europe where the origin of most products are. So shipping and importing uh , products, it's not like in the past, you know, there's this myth that importation is terrible, there's corruption and products get stuck in costumes. I mean if you do it , uh, wrong of course if you don't know how to ship something, if you ship the wrong quantities, if you have a mismatch with between what the invoice says and what you shipped, I mean of course you're gonna run into issue and that will happen anywhere, but , uh, but it's not that bad.
Vikash Dudhia: 16:16
Yeah, and that's an important point Julio to mention actually. You know, that if you do what you're supposed to do then everything works as it should do. And you're right, there is a free trade agreement and obviously I'm speaking from the UK from Europe and so, you know, on on the whole, as I mentioned earlier, I've never had any real issues and as long as all the paperwork matches up and you submit the paperwork that's required, it shouldn't be a problem.
Julio Martinez: 16:38
Okay, fantastic Vic, so let's switch gears a little bit now. Let's talk about regulatory approvals or market clearance in the different countries in the region. There's also a myth that there's a big hurdle , I mean it's a big issue to get regulatory approvals in Latin America. I love to expand upon your experiences here. Have you been involved in getting regulatory approvals?
Vikash Dudhia: 17:00
Yes, to a certain degree and to certain extent with various different products. And I have to say, I dunno whether I've been fortunate, but I haven't really had any major issues with getting products registered. Sometimes you know, there's an issue with language then that could be, you know, things maybe can be misinterpreted. There's plenty of support around um, to help you and guide you through that process. But personally I haven't really kind of come across any major obstacles to get things registered. You know, language, time, documentation, information, those are the key things that if there are gonna be any holdups, those are the things that are going to hold you up. Sometimes the expectations are different, you know, for Europeans there are expectations that things will happen a certain time by a certain stage. So you have to kind of also manage your own expectations in terms of when it's going to get completed. For example, your your distributor, we should be able to give you some guidance in terms of kind of how long it takes, what's the normal time, what kind of paperwork is required. There are companies and individuals out there that can help and guide you through that. But personally I've never had to use anyone externally. I've been able to do it myself. There was one occasion when I was reminded that making a registration in the company's name rather than the name of the distributor was probably more beneficial for the organization. But apart from that, I can't recall anything else that, that's been a stumbling block to be honest, in terms of um , registering products.
Julio Martinez: 18:27
Okay. So in your prior companies, what was the policy to hold the registration certificate under the company's name or? Yes, a local third party. Oh , okay. Very good. Yes , very good . Yes , because you know the issue, I mean most countries, the shooters offer themselves to pay and to do the work of ratioing the products, but they have total control over the sales in the country and that's not a good thing. For example, I mean in Columbia , I think that's probably one of the few countries in Latin America that allow you to have, if you're a foreign company to hold title of the registration certificate in the other countries, you can hire the services about what is called a registration holder. Yes. So that you don't let the shooter have total control over the certificate because in many cases what you expect from the distributor , uh, a year from when you signed the agreement is not what was in the agreement. So what I'm saying is that the distributor sometimes do not reach the objectives or the sales goals and you have issues with the distributor and you wanna switch the shooters. And that happens, even if you do due diligence, it can happen. So if the shooter holds a certificate under its name, he or she won't be willing to switch or to transfer the certificate to a competing distributor. So that's always a problem that I've seen , uh, with companies that wanna save some money and I wanna save some time that just wanna let the distributor do the registration.
Vikash Dudhia: 19:57
Yes, it's a really important point to remember when you are starting that journey with the relationship with the distributor and then registering your products. And we all hope that the relationship you , you have with the distributor is gonna be a long and fruitful and successful one as you've rightly pointed out. You know, sometimes things don't work out, these things happen for whatever reason. You wanna be able to have an element of control in terms of moving product from one distributor to another without having too much hassle to be able to do that. So yeah, absolutely Right. I agree with you.
Julio Martinez: 20:29
Thanks Vic. Alright , so let's talk a little bit about individual countries if you don't mind. What's been your experience with the major countries like Mexico, Brazil? Well you mentioned that in Brazil you haven't been involved, but , uh, Mexico, Columbia , Peru, Chile. I mean, any comments on individual countries?
Vikash Dudhia: 20:48
I always liken this to when people talk about Europe and they kind of lump it up into one country. It's definitely not, there are subtle and sometimes not so subtle differences. And I think you just have to be completely mindful that there are things that are common across these different countries, but also similarly, there are things that are very different. And so I'm not just talking from a point of regulatory kind of compliance from importation or any of those other issues. I'm talking kind of culturally as well. And this has always been my experiences that you can't use a broad brush broad technique across all of the countries across Latin America. It's important to understand the differences as well as the similarities. You know, I remember when I first went to Mexico not really understanding the market, not really understanding kind of the processes and what I needed to do. And it was a complete minefield, Julio, I'll be honest with you. And it was an anxious time for me because I had a point to prove for my organization to find a good partner. But you have to understand that the tempo and the pace is different. You have to understand that the sometimes the priorities are different. You have to be mindful of all of that before you start these discussions. In terms of, I've been fortunate again for one reason or another that I've not had any major issues in any of these countries. With some countries it's been easier to kind of start the relationship and then quickly expedite into kind of successful sales stories as it's taken longer with Mexico. I think for me at the time, and I'm talking maybe kind of 12 years ago, getting the registration documentation and understanding what was required at the time was really, really difficult. There was a lot of disparity between what was being asked and what was expected to be delivered. For example, with Columbia, it didn't have so many issues. It was fairly smooth sailing as it was with Argentina and Chile. But I think I'd also gained a lot of experience in that time and was probably expecting, had better expectations of myself in terms of what I needed to do to make sure that it was smooth sailing.
Julio Martinez: 22:55
Good. Vic, you mentioned the words expectations and priorities when we were talking about the dealing with people. I like to talk about the culture and that's not question that I have here in my interview flow, but uh, it just came up. What are your thoughts about the Latin American culture versus the US or the , uh, European UK culture?
Vikash Dudhia: 23:21
Yeah, it's an interesting question, Julio. And you know, I think this is why I personally love international sales so much. At the end of the day, we're all the same. It doesn't matter where you live or what language you speak, we're all the same. And when we're talking about sales and we're talking about the commercial environment, the object that is the same is to sell and to make money and supply good, reliable products to patients. But what's interesting about the culture is that, you know, it's the tempo. It's that relationship building expectation. There are subtle differences in not just Latin America, but in other countries too. And understanding that and appreciating that really helps that relationship building. And I think that's really crucial. And , and I think, you know, for those people listening, I've always been a consultative seller. I've been a relationship builder. And I think for me, understanding those cultural subtleties and what's important has really helped me build strong long lasting relationships in all of the countries that I've worked in Latin America. And so those distributors have become friends and that's a great situation to be in, but they've become friends because I've taken the time and trouble to understand what's important to them and they've done the same for me. Similarly, not only commercially, but what's important to us as as people. Good.
Julio Martinez: 24:40
You mentioned the word tempo. I like that <laugh>. So you probably talk about manana
Vikash Dudhia: 24:45
<laugh> . I do. I lived in Spain and I have to tell you, this is going off , um, topic a little bit, but I I lived in Spain for many years and when I moved from the uk , um, for those people that have visited the uk you know, you , you have an idea of what the culture is like. And to a certain extent it's true. But you know, again, you shouldn't generalize. When I moved to Spain, I didn't really know or understand the concept of manana . And so for me it was super frustrating if I was expecting somebody to call me at 10 o'clock, at 10 0 1 and I hadn't got the call, my anxiety levels went up. Um ,
Julio Martinez: 25:20
Yes, <laugh> happens for me. This
Vikash Dudhia: 25:23
Is what I mean by the tempo. You have to understand the tempo of the place. It's not because they're being rude, it's not because they're being impolite, but it's just the way that it is. And so you have to be able to adapt, you have to be able to understand and accept it. And it's not just in Latin America. You know, I've had the same situation working in the Middle East in Asia Pacific where the expectations are different to where I was brought up here in the uk. So this whole culture thing and business fascinates me completely. And I think, you know, that's why I enjoy kind of , um, working in , in so many different countries around the world.
Julio Martinez: 26:01
Excellent. Vic . All right , let's talk about an ugly topic, which is , uh, corruption in bribery in Latin America. Have you had any inexperiences with that?
Vikash Dudhia: 26:12
Um, thankfully no. But you know, the organizations I've worked with have been very clear , um, about anti-bribery, anti-corruption and me personally absolutely right. There's no place for it. You distance yourself completely from it. And when we, when we spoke earlier about, you know, your distributor qualification, this is something that I've always spoken about right at the, the forefront of the conversation. When you are describing how you want that relationship to work going forward, you have to make it very clear that, you know, this is not something that you're going to entertain. It's not something that your company will discuss or even enter into and you make a complete kind of distance. You distance yourself and your organization from anything that might be involved with any of this kind of stuff.
Julio Martinez: 26:58
Okay, well said . Alright , um, Vic, before we sign off for today, do you have any final thoughts , uh, more sort of wisdom or other musings for our listeners? In other words, what would you say to a small mid-size , uh, US or European company that hasn't looked at Latin America or it's just starting to explore the region as a potential market to expand its footprint?
Vikash Dudhia: 27:28
Yeah, you know, the , the one piece of advice I would give is don't go with a template. Go with an open mind and don't disregard a distributor or a country because it doesn't hit the top five list on your , um, target. And the reason I say that is that I've been on the receiving end of people coming in from overseas companies coming in with their ideas and wisdoms of what works very well in their home market. And transplanting that using that same template in a different country doesn't always work. You know, we talked about the cultural differences of commercial activity. It's important to understand that and to appreciate that. I think it's important to adapt to your template to make sure that it works in the market that you're going into. And then the other thing is just , just be completely open-minded in terms of you have your strategy, you have your plan of where you want to target, what countries you want to target, but don't disregard some of the others because be open to the opportunities that will come up in conversations and you building your network. So just be mindful that just because it's not on your top five list, it won't make it to your top five list. And often, you know, I've been in various different roles in my sales career and people are often said, oh, don't go there, don't do that. They don't have the money, they won't be interested in our product. And actually, you know, I have to say in pretty much most occasions they've been wrong because it's all about meeting the right people at the right time and seizing the opportunity. So, you know, my, my second tip I guess is just keep an open mind to those opportunities, particularly in Latin America because there are lots of exciting things happening. There's lots of exciting innovation , um, happening and there's a lot of very, very promising conversations to be had.
Julio Martinez: 29:29
Excellent. Big . Alright , so how can listeners find you, Vic ?
Vikash Dudhia: 29:35
Ah , okay. Well so my website is Arlo Consulting. Um , so you can find all my contact details on there. You can reach out to me either by, by telephone, by email, or whatever's convenient for you. Yeah. So you can, you can find me on Arlo Consulting
Julio Martinez: 29:52
And LinkedIn. You are , um,
Vikash Dudhia: 29:54
Yeah, I'm, I'm on LinkedIn. You can find me by my name for Udia . I also have an Instagram account, big <inaudible> . Um, so I'm on pretty much all of the major , um, social network platforms. If you type in my name, you should be able to find me. But if you can't, you can go to Arlo Consulting and you'll find all the links for the social media pages on there.
Julio Martinez: 30:15
Excellent. Big cash . Alright . Thank you so much. It was a delightful interview. I am certain listeners , uh, got a lot of good information from you and we're able to tap into your wisdom <laugh> and uh , I feel honored to have you here on the show. So thank you again and uh , be safe.
Vikash Dudhia: 30:34
Uh , thank you Julia . Well thank you again for the invitation. It's been an absolute pleasure. And yes, I hope that the listeners , um, find some hints and tips from the conversation that we've had. And yeah, and , and the same to you. Keep, well, keep safe and , and to all the listeners .
Julio Martinez: 30:49
Alright , bye-Bye
Vikash Dudhia: 30:50
Bye-Bye .