ESPECIAL EPISODE 56: THOMAS CELERIER, MARCEL GRADIDGE & GAUTAM NARAYAN

Thomas Celerier is heading their Healthcare, MedTech, and Life Sciences business, teams, and portfolio of clients for the Palo Alto Offices, Marcel Gradidge is a Director in the Business Advisory unit in the Silicon Valley Market and Gautam Narayan is a leader in the Emerge Supply Chain Division. All of them come from a diverse background managing global projects and teams and with experience in international relationships, with careers, professional and personal lives spanning multiple locations such as Australia, Colombia, Mexico, South Africa, Europe, India, and North America.

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Episode’s transcript

Julio Martinez: 0:00

Welcome to the Latin MedTech Leaders podcast, a conversation with MedTech leaders who have succeeded or plan to succeed in Latin America. Please subscribe on your favorite podcasting platform. Apple Podcast, Spotify, Google Podcast. Amazon Music is teacher Tune in iHeart Radio, Pandora or Deser . Welcome to the Latin Metech Leaders Podcast, a conversation with leaders who have succeeded or plan to succeed in Latin America. It's my pleasure today to be in the company of three interesting people , uh, professionals who also are consultants from Slalom, an international management and con and technology consulting firm, headquarter in Seattle, and founded in 2001. The first professional is our expert, is Thomas Cellier . I hope you're , I'm pronouncing your name correctly. Thomas <laugh> . He head, he's the head of their slaloms , uh, healthcare MedTech and life sciences businesses , um, teams and portfolio of clients for the Palo Alto offices in California. Marcel <laugh>, I , I hope I can pronounce your name correctly, gradi <laugh> is the director in the business advisory unit in the Silicon Valley market. And Goam Narayan is a leader in the Emerge Supply Chain division and is based in Boston, Massachusetts. All of them come from a diverse background , uh, managing global projects and teams. They all have experience in international relationships with careers, professional personal lives spanning in multiple locations, including Australia, Columbia , Mexico, South Africa, Europe, India, and North America. So, wow. I mean, this is , uh, a lot of geographies and cultures, and I'm really excited to be here with you guys. Welcome, gentlemen .

Thomas Celerier: 1:54

Well , thanks for having us , Julio .

Julio Martinez: 1:57

Excellent. Um, Thomas, so please, let's get started with talking about Slalom. What is it, what do you , is it that you guys do and how you guys help companies succeed in Latin America?

Thomas Celerier: 2:09

Yeah, thank you for , uh, for the opportunity and , uh, looking forward to the, the conversation. So, slalom is a management and technology consulting firm. Uh, we're focused on , uh, three main areas , uh, helping our client with their strategies , their technology project, as well as just overall business transformation. As you mentioned, we were , uh, founded , uh, 20 years ago now , uh, headquartered in Seattle. But , uh, we've grown , uh, quite , uh, nicely and organically , uh, through , uh, um, outside of , uh, of the US markets where we're very much present in , uh, 35 plus location in the, the us . But we're also , uh, in Australia, in Japan , uh, in , uh, Canada and in , uh, the UK and , and , uh, and Europe. Um, we've grown one consultant at a time , uh, very much focused , uh, uh, preserving our culture, which is both client centric, but as well as , uh, employee , uh, employee and collaborator centric. So , uh, we're , uh, now a 2 billion , uh, company in terms of , uh, revenue. We got a nice, nice portfolio of , um, clients across several industry segments , uh, so including , uh, pharma, MedTech , uh, and healthcare, but also , uh, pretty much all of their , all of their client , uh, client segments. Um, healthcare and life sciences is a big share of what we do. Uh, it's probably between , uh, if you take a look at the typical sale office, it's between 20 and 30% of our revenue , uh, and , uh, end team . Uh, one of our differentiator is that we have a combination of , uh, a very , uh, local and localized team, very much, and on the client and companies , uh, all governmental organization and association we work with. Uh, we live in the same community, right? That, that we work , uh, we augment this with , uh, global technology center and , uh, and teams, and also network of partners. So , uh, really leveraging those strengths of this , uh, hybrid model, if you will, to , uh, best sell the needs of our clients.

Julio Martinez: 4:17

Very good. And you guys have ample experience in Latin America, right?

Thomas Celerier: 4:22

Yeah. So we do follow, you know, our clients , uh, with their global needs, and a lot of our clients, you know, have global location. So for specific project that, you know , Marcel and and Goam are gonna comment on , uh, we do have, you know, assist our clients with their , uh, operation in , uh, in Latin America. Yeah .

Julio Martinez: 4:42

Okay. Excellent. So let's get started with you, Thomas. Uh , what's your personal and professional and or professional relationship with Latin America? How you first got involved with the region, and I mean , by your, by listening to your accent , uh, imagine you come from France. Yeah . So how is it that you got connected with Latin America somehow? Yeah,

Thomas Celerier: 5:03

I have the , at least I have the , the Latin branch in my accent at least , uh, being a French , uh, French native. But , uh, yeah, I've been now for , uh, 16 plus years in , um, in, in the US and my, my ties are twofold, right? So first I have the, the pleasure of working with this gentleman and, and serving our clients in, in this region. And then , uh, on the personal side, actually, my , uh, my wife is from , uh, Colombia , from Barcia , uh,

Julio Martinez: 5:31

My hometown as well. Yeah,

Thomas Celerier: 5:33

Yeah, exactly. Yeah . So we , uh, we met over there. I've been , uh, been there, you know, multiple times. I had our family visiting as well. So that's , uh, both , uh, I'd say a professional and , uh, personal relationship , uh, as far as I'm concerned.

Julio Martinez: 5:47

Perfect. Perfect. All right . So let's get started with , uh, Marcel. So what's your story, Marcel? What's your relationship with Latin America on a personal professional level ?

Marcel Gradidge: 5:59

Uh, well, I think professionally , um, you know, it's been exciting. I used to work for a company called British Airways, and I was a financial manager there. And , uh, part of the region that I looked after was latam . Um, and that was way back. So, you know, I don't wanna give away my age. I'm still 16. But , um, yeah, I think I had a lot of business dealings and was able, or was lucky enough to travel to the region very young in my career. Um, and, you know, I still have relationships , uh, personal relationships in latam across Argentina, Brazil. Um, my neighbor, very close neighbor is Brazilian, and, you know, we have too much , uh, <inaudible> , but, you know, it's, it's probably good for the system , uh, <laugh> . And , uh, actually my ,

Julio Martinez: 6:49

Yeah ,

Marcel Gradidge: 6:49

My , uh, grandfather who's , um, French , um, uh oh , really lived in Argentina in Bueno Aires for a number of years. And, you know, we still have family connections. Oh,

Julio Martinez: 7:01

Nice.

Marcel Gradidge: 7:02

Inrg. So , um, you know, I think, you know, back in the days of ship travel and not necessarily, you know, air travel, a lot of firm relationships were built that were generationally strong. So yeah, we still have a good connection there. So, yeah.

Julio Martinez: 7:19

Very good. All right . So what about you , um, Guam ?

Gautam Narayan: 7:24

Yeah, so my professional experience with , uh, Latin America comes through leading large supply chain and business transformations with , uh, with global companies that have a presence in Latin America. So, for example, the most recent , uh, work that I've done included working with 11 countries in the Latin American region, evolving their supply chain capabilities. Uh , on the personal front, I don't have any familial ties like the other two gents on the phone, but have long been , uh, in complete love with the , the music and the art and the culture and the sport of the region, like , uh, most other people. Yeah. So it's an absolute pleasure for me to be here, Julio.

Julio Martinez: 8:08

Excellent. I'm very happy to hear that. It's , it's certainly a sexy region. That's how I like to call it <laugh> <laugh> . Some countries are sexy than others. Venezuela's not so that sexy anymore, but that used to be a great country. Yeah. Columbia is probably top of the list of sexy countries in the region. Uh, Dominican Republic, Puerto Rico is a great place. Mm-hmm . <affirmative> , et cetera , et cetera. Mexico is a beautiful, beautiful country. Lots of culture, great food, and, and mm-Hmm , <affirmative> and , and , uh, great people. Anyway , so let's get to, to the heart of the conversation today, gentlemen. So what trends do you see happening in Latin America that are relevant to our discussion about how companies can succeed in Latin America selling their pharmaceutical or medical technology products? So, let's start with , uh, Marcel Guam , who's gonna be first?

Marcel Gradidge: 9:00

Um, I, I can start. Uh, and then I think Gotham's got a good supply chain story to tell. Okay . So I think for me, you know, working with , uh, you know, large pharmaceutical companies that are focused on, you know, the commercial side of, of , um, you know, the , the business, I see the trends , um, as you know, the region wants to get more engaged and more mature in dealing with some of the larger US pharmaceutical companies. Um, I believe that, you know, through my interactions with leaders of , um, very large distribution organizations in the region, there's keen interest to evolve their business and learn from, you know, best practice. So, as we engage with, you know, very senior people in these organizations, the, the question always comes, like, you know, how can we get better? How do we get, you know, more mature in the space of, you know, the commercial side of , uh, pharmaceutical organizations? I think Covid definitely changed the way that, you know, latam engages with global pharmaceutical companies , um, and it's only gonna improve, you know, more as, you know, drug development , uh, the cycle of drug development is gonna get shorter, which means that, you know, the cycle of patterns and availability of , um, you know , um, generic drugs is gonna be exposed a lot more in latam . So that's, you know, latam should, you know, consider the manufacturing concept of, you know, what other regions around the world have adopted in terms of, you know , um, looking at patterns that are, you know, coming up , um, to ex expiration and looking at how they can utilize those patterns to , uh, develop the generics that are, you know, drive down a , a lower price for , um, you know, consumers and patients within those regions.

Julio Martinez: 11:08

All right . Excellent. Goam , what do you have in mind?

Gautam Narayan: 11:12

Yeah, so my observations based on latam are this, right? I think, so supply chain is a focus, not just in latam , but globally, and especially over the last two years, supply chain is the one function that has been heavily burdened because of the pandemic and because of supply constraints. Now, especially in this sector, you are dealing with long lead times, right? So supply by default is a constraint. So that puts even more burdens on companies to actually get some of these drugs or products to the end customer on time, right? So that, that's a big observation that companies are choosing to invest in because there's real opportunities to become more efficient. That's one. The second is, if you look at the, if you look at the region, a lot of countries in the region operate on a distributor model. Right? Now you might, you might have affiliates in, in these countries for a lot of these companies, but the relationship with the distributor is, is paramount because those distributors will then sell to wholesalers who will then sell to clinics and hospitals, and then there's a whole separate private market. So, as you can imagine, in a supply chain that has so many different nodes , uh, there's also just as many failure points, right? And , and all of these different partners are at varying levels of evolution when it comes to maturity with their processes, with their systems, with their understanding of the market, with the relationships with the data. So for a lot of leaders that oversee Latin America, trying to really get efficient and evolve the maturity across these different stakeholders is another big focus. They , how do we just get the data to even understand what is happening in the market? How do we visualize it? How do we figure out what those pressure points are? Because it's really difficult. And you add to that complexities, you know, and even the distributors might be regionally headquartered and based in uua , for example, but the end markets might be Peru and , and Bolivia and Paraguay. So to really understand what is happening at the patient level, that information has to go through so many different layers that truly understanding what is happening on the ground in these different countries in the region is really challenging. Yes,

Julio Martinez: 13:50

It is . It's a great point. Mm-Hmm, <affirmative>.

Gautam Narayan: 13:53

So that is another big focus and an area of opportunity for the Latin American region as a whole. And there's some that are more mature, there's some that are more evolving.

Julio Martinez: 14:01

Yes .

Gautam Narayan: 14:02

Everything that I'm seeing you , you combine that with just the pressure that these companies are under. And based on what Marcel said, there's, there's a lot of opportunity.

Julio Martinez: 14:12

Very good. I'm glad to hear that. All right . So , uh, that leads me to my next question is, how do you see the region as a land of opportunity for pharmaceutical medical advice companies to sell their innovations? Do you see , uh, Latin America as a great market, or as a soso market price sensitive market, how do you, how do you see , uh, these countries? So, Marcel, let's start with you first.

Marcel Gradidge: 14:37

Uh , I think as , uh, as , uh, pharmaceutical companies , uh, and medical device companies , uh, realize , um, the peak in revenue generation in a lot of , um, you know, Western , uh, uh, countries, the opportunity lies in, in regions where the revenue opportunity is big and hasn't been realized because of lack of investment, lack of , uh, you know, strategic , uh, engagement and investment. And I think , uh, definitely latam is one of those areas where there has not been the level of investment that, you know, should have been , um, some time ago. But I think as organizations ma mature, and as you know, revenue within these regions , uh, these more mature regions , uh, hits a , um, a peak, then leaders in those organizations are definitely looking for further revenue , uh, generating , um, areas. So the other things to consider is just the adoption of, you know , um, technology, the inclusion of, you know, different folks in clinical trials , uh, CROs setting up more operations in latam because of, you know, the availability of , um, uh, you know, patients that could be part of trials. Um, that definitely leads to a further investment in the regions. I think , uh, you know, one of the things that has prevented large pharmaceuticals from investing is sometimes that political stability, but as the region becomes, you know, more stable, and there are a few changes that happen , um, but I think business still continues, right? So I think , uh, uh, large, you know, companies are realizing that, you know, political, the, the, the level of political engagement is different in , uh, latam as it is to, you know, say in the US and, you know, the, the engagements of, you know, folks on the ground in, you know, making sure. So like , as Gotham was saying, like, when I think of the distributors that we work with, they are keen to get that further investment in engagement with large pharmaceutical companies because they have the skillset . So you have people that are definitely academically , um, skilled to fulfill the functions of a pharmaceutical company. Um, they just haven't had the opportunities that have allowed them to, to do that. And then what you see is people move out of the region and they go to, you know, like the us where the jobs are and where, you know, organizations will look at those skill sets and say, Hey, you know, I'd love to have you work for my company, but what we, what the tech industry is driving as they expand around the world, is that they're setting up operations in LA as an example. And it's proving to be very stable, <laugh> , it's proving to be a very successful business model. And then you have the followers, which is, you know, the more , um, you know, established , uh, industries saying, Hey, hold on a second, if the tech industry is able to open an office in Brazil or Argentina, attract really good talent, and we can drive really good value and innovation out of there , then why aren't we doing it? So I think, you know, for, for regions like latam , I think, you know, the tech industry has been both , both a blessing and, you know, sometimes a challenge in when it comes to social media. But , um, I think from a business perspective , uh, definitely, you know, has made people think differently. And then also, you know, covid, and when we think about covid and the ability for people to be in an office, in a physical environment in the us , that requirement is gone. You know, so the ability to work remotely, the ability to deliver the same results , um, you know, at a price point that becomes more attractive for an organization, it's a win-win, right? So I'll pause.

Julio Martinez: 18:58

Agree, good comment .

Thomas Celerier: 19:00

And I , I , I would add volume maybe like, you know, specifically to , um, to the pharma sector, right? Like , uh, another trend is, is, and , and potential for the region is like reducing the dependency to , um, to China, right? And, and , and right . Shortening the supply chain, right? So

Julio Martinez: 19:20

You are showing , is that what you're referring to?

Thomas Celerier: 19:23

Yeah , yeah. Reassuring the , the , the production capability. So we of course, you know, hear a lot about, like, actually you were mentioning Puerto Ricos right? Potential since , yes , a lot of the , you know, major drug are already produced there, and it's of course part of the, the, you know, the, the us right? But that , that's very true for the, the rest of the, the Latin American region as well, right? As as , uh, the, the manufacturing process and capacities are , uh, brought back , uh, closer to , uh, closer to the market. Um, so yes.

Julio Martinez: 19:58

Yeah, yeah. Well said actually. Um , my home country, Columbia has a very, very aggressive campaign. The government as a , an entity called Pro Columbia is the pro investment agency of the government to promote companies to invest in the country. And they have a very aggressive campaign to bring near sharing to , to Columbia to take advantage of this opportunity that, that Trump and China, the fight that they were having and all that , uh, he created that opportunity for countries like Columbia to bring,

Gautam Narayan: 20:29

And Julio , we are seeing, we are seeing the results of that, right? Based on observations we do. Okay . Yeah. We know of companies opening up affiliates in Columbia .

Julio Martinez: 20:41

Wow . Really ?

Gautam Narayan: 20:42

So there is traction there outside of the usual suspects , uh, in terms of manufacturing in Brazil, Mexico, so on and so forth. Right. Okay . And I wanna build on a couple of points that, that Jen said here in, because of the supply chain constraints and the challenges in trying to understand the markets, I think companies are investing in getting closer to the markets and even better being in the markets. Yeah , that's right . So that is bearing fruit. There's a couple of other things I'm noticing. One is , uh, similar to the Covid vaccine, there's a tendency for a lot of these countries to want to go to a single dose treatment or drug.

Julio Martinez: 21:27

Yeah .

Gautam Narayan: 21:27

So what that is actually doing is resulting in a lot of investment in innovation to trial and commercialize new drugs and new products. Because in a lot of these countries, and especially the rural areas, the clinics won't, you know, people won't even come back for the second dose because it's just

Julio Martinez: 21:47

Yeah ,

Gautam Narayan: 21:48

Exactly . Right . So , so there's a definite, there's a definite push because of those socioeconomic reasons, and that is being channeled into trying to trial and commercialize new products. And then on the third, from the government intervention, right? I think for example, Mexico, the government has created a whole separate procurement body that will, that will oversee , uh, the procurement of most pharmaceutical drugs within a certain criteria, right? Whether that's a pill or an injection, or whatever that might be . And a lot of these countries are also tender based . Yes . So now you combine the two, and if you do want to actually , uh, live up to the promises you made based on the tender, A you won't even know until last minute, right? But what that means is you need to be prepared to actually meet that tender quantity and more or less, right? So that takes a whole bunch of flexibility on the manufacturing side, on the supply chain side. So a culmination of all of that, I think is, is fueling incredible investments , uh, in the areas of manufacturing and clinical and commercialization and data and technology, and just becoming overall more efficient with, with how you do things in the region.

Julio Martinez: 23:07

Yes, yes. Yeah, you're bringing up a good point. That tender base procurement process in Latin America is very common. I just finished writing an article about the, the opportunities that Chile represents for medical device companies specifically. Uh, and , uh, yeah, I mean , uh, the, the, the, I I , I found out I didn't know about these , uh, uh, agency dedicated to procuring purchasing products for the whole healthcare system. Same happens in, as you said, Mexico. And same happens in Panama, that I'm , I'm familiar with that country for personal professional reasons, and I'm sure it happens in other countries in Venezuela. I'm sure it happens. So it's , uh, is in Brazil, probably happens. I mean, Brazil has a very , uh, centralized healthcare system as well. So, so yes , it's, it's definitely , uh, uh, the way to operate in Latin America through tenders. So, alright , guys, let's, let's talk about individual countries , uh, before we end the show, because we're already up 23 minutes, looks like we can talk about this for, for <laugh> the whole day. But , uh, let's talk about individual countries. What's been your, let's pick the top economies in the region. Let's talk about Mexico, Brazil, Colombia , Argentina. Right? And I like you guys to talk about the Pacific Alliance, if you've heard about it. And, and I wanna hear your thoughts about it , uh, because it's definitely a trend that is, that is beneficial for pharmaceutical companies or medical advice companies that wanna, that wanna see Latin America as a unified , uh, block. Like it , it happened in Europe 30 years ago or something. So let's start with Mexico. What do you guys think about Mexico? Marcel, let's start with you.

Marcel Gradidge: 24:51

Um, I think , uh, you know, obviously there was a , you know, like a , a change of leadership , um, and that Lent led to a , a change in , um, the way the country , um, approached some, you know, business , um, engagements. And a lot of the reliance on Mexico has been on trade with the US because of, you know, just close geographical , um, uh, you know, like , um, uh, component. But then I think, you know, Mexico, like many countries in latam is looking to Tomas point , you know, there are other, you know, countries that want to invest in, in, in latam and in Mexico in particular because of, you know, it's , um, it's like very mature manufacturing industry. Like, I mean, Mexico, if I, you know, go into my kitchen and I open my refrigerator, it's made in Mexico. If I look at my car, it's made in Mexico. And it's the same applies for, you know, like , uh, drug manufacturing and, and medical devices. You know, like , um, so I think as you know, Mexico , um, evolves , um, you know, just that reliance on us manufacturing and looking to expand, you know, more globally, I think the opportunity opens , um, a lot of doors for investment , um, because you, you, you know, people want a skilled workforce where they can move production and it's not gonna cause disruption. Uh, it's gonna be a easy skill set for people to just, you know, adapt to and, and get up to speed. So , uh, I'm, you know, very buoyant on, you know, Mexico's , um, future in the short term . I know that, you know, we're still in this covid environment, and I wish somehow that Mexico would focus a lot more on some of those relationships and, you know , um, expanding their , their role as a global manufacturer while, you know , uh, there are constraints on, you know, people not necessarily just buying from, from Asia, but like looking in the region.

Julio Martinez: 27:06

Yeah. And , and Mexico looks more like a North American country rather than a Latin American country in many ways. Yeah . Especially now with the renew , uh, uh, future agreement with Canada and the United States. Mm-Hmm . <affirmative> . So , so, yeah. Alright . So Gotham , what , what do you have in mind in terms of Mexico?

Gautam Narayan: 27:21

Yeah. Many of the things that Marcel said, look, if you, the , the perception is that Mexico is the most stable economy and place to do business in across manufacturing, technology, all of these different areas, right? So I think that that that perception of stability and , uh, the , the obvious benefits they have geographically, I think positions Mexico really well. Uh , the other opportunity for Mexico, I think is to cater to a lot of the Caribbean , uh, central America and Caribbean countries, and take away some of their reliance on China and India and gain some efficiencies there, right? So I equate Mexico a lot with, with India in that sense, because they're , you know, the geographically and economically and politically well positioned to help out , uh, the the general region and their, and their neighbors.

Julio Martinez: 28:19

Yeah. Yeah. I've , I've had the opportunity to visit Mexico probably four or five times, and I really love the country, the culture, the infrastructure, the highways, everything is, is quite a developed country and has a great history. And, and it's so diverse. I mean, everywhere you go, you find beautiful people, beautiful culture, great food, <laugh> too . So, anyway, so let's move on. Um, let's go down the region. Let's talk about , uh, the next one, Columbia , which is the third largest economy in Latin America now is in emerging market in the region, emerging forests . Uh, Argentina used to be the third largest. Now many people would agree that it's now Colombia because of the political instability in Argentina, although I don't know what's going on in Colombia now, but that's another topic of discussion. Hopefully something good comes out of it. I think that what's happening, Columbia , with just happening in Chile is a process that a lot of these countries have to go through. It's a , it's a , is a , is is a process of maturing to, to realize that we have deep issues, let's solve these issues together. Unfortunately, they use violence to fix them, but they, they all have to go through, through this. So anyway , let's talk about Columbia , what your , your experience in Columbia , uh, Marcel starting with you. And , and , and Thomas, please feel free to jump in whenever you have something to add. Yeah , I'm sorry, Marcel, go ahead.

Marcel Gradidge: 29:37

Tamar has a close attachment to co Columbia . Yes . Um , so I think for me , um, what , uh, you know, in the, in the past couple of months, what we've seen is , uh, with the distributors we've been working with , uh, in the region, there's been a lot of consolidation. There's been a lot of m and a activity, which is positive because foreign direct investments in , um, you know, in the region, in the country is just positive, right? So obviously international organizations are looking at, you know, the organizations or companies that service , uh, global players in Columbia and saying, well , Holland a second, these companies actually doing good work, we are actually gonna buy them, you know, like, and then consolidate some of the activities. And I mean, from a government perspective, that foreign direct investments is what every country wants, right? Because it just leads to enhanced GDP and job creation, you know, like , um, and capital flow, which eventually goes across the economy and is able to exactly impact, you know, like folks that are on the ground. So for me,

Julio Martinez: 30:45

And not exchange as well, not transfer.

Marcel Gradidge: 30:48

Yeah , absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and, you know, just, it's just been positive for me in the past couple of months. I know that, you know, the folks in the grounding Columbia were like , um, they didn't know what, you know, how to, how to look at this. And, you know, we had, you know, just private discussions around what it would mean for them. And, you know, looking at the positive , uh, concepts of, you know, like investments in the organization , uh, job creation. So definitely, you know, I've seen in this particular organization, there's been a 20% , um, increase in employees just in the short space of time. And one wouldn't think in a covid environment that you would have that sort of increase in employee numbers in an organization. Yeah . So it's been, you know, my, my perception is that it's been positive.

Julio Martinez: 31:40

Yeah. Yeah. J just a quick point before Guam , um, continues , Columbia is becoming with Costa Rica , uh, one of the top hubs in Latin America for BPO. I mean, a lot of , uh, companies in different sectors of the economy, healthcare and other things, they use call centers in Barranquilla, for example, Thomas , um, because the bilingual workforce and very low cost and , um, good education , uh, Bogota, PEDA and other cities. So,

Thomas Celerier: 32:10

Yeah. Yeah. No, that's true. And, and I think, you know, the education is gonna be one of , um, one of the key for this , actually. There's also , um, a French company, right? With , uh, with investing , um, in , uh, developing like software engineering talent. And they actually do have no now two , uh, two schools in , uh, in Colombia , right? So , really,

Julio Martinez: 32:32

Wow. Fantastic.

Thomas Celerier: 32:33

Yeah. They , uh, they , they definitely see it , you know, as a, as a country of , uh, of potential, right? And it's , yeah , like finding the, helping the, the country find their sector of strengths and their positioning, both with their trade partners and, and within, you know, the broader , uh, the broader region that you are , you and alliances that you are mentioning earlier. So yeah, I do see make good , good , good stability, good potential.

Julio Martinez: 32:59

Yeah. Agree. Alright . Gotham , what do you think about Columbia ? Yeah,

Gautam Narayan: 33:03

Columbia I think is the next big star in the region. Good . Yeah. For all of the reasons Marcel and Toma said, but I also think that, you know, if you look at the average person anywhere on planet Earth right now, there is a positive curiosity towards Columbia . People are curious about Colombia , and I wouldn't underestimate the role that the cultural revolution that, that that's played a part in it. But you, you look at music and you look at food, and you look at

Julio Martinez: 33:33

Yes . And you look at , yes , very

Gautam Narayan: 33:35

True. So a lot of social developments led by what you see and what you hear and what you eat has resulted in increased tourism.

Julio Martinez: 33:44

Oh, yes.

Gautam Narayan: 33:46

Positive ,

Julio Martinez: 33:46

Like a hundred percent increased after the peace agreement was signed. Yes,

Gautam Narayan: 33:50

Yes. Right. And all of a sudden, people are listening to Maluma and JB

Julio Martinez: 33:54

And

Gautam Narayan: 33:54

<laugh> , and I, I, you know, and there's a curiosity about the region true that that is extending beyond just the music, it's extending to tourism, it's extending to other businesses. And, and I think overall the country is really well positioned to, to become the next , uh, big start in the region.

Julio Martinez: 34:12

Great point. Awesome. All right , guys. Let's talk about , uh, the next one down the list. Um, let's talk about Chile because , um, it's in the Pacific Alliance. I want to keep things in the Pacific Alliance. We can talk about Brazil a little bit in Argentina, but the Pacific Alliance is quite a development in the region. I don't know if you guys have been following the news, but , uh, it's , it's the first trade block that is really making progress in unifying the region. So it started with , uh, just for the audience to make sure everybody's on the same page. Started with Mexico, Columbia , Peru, and Chile as founder countries, founding countries, they are all OECD countries. Uh, Peru is in the Ascension path. Uh, the other ones are members. Chile was the first member in South America. Mexico was the first in the whole region, then Colombia , and now Peru and Costa Rica and Panama are candidate members to become , uh, part of the Pacific Alliance as well. Uh , because Merkel sewer didn't work, or it's not working. Uh, the ND impact didn't work. Uh , ALCA , I think it was , uh, how it was called when Clinton was in power , uh, didn't work either. So it looks like the Pacific Alliance will create a , a , a uniform market similar to , to what Europe did many years ago. And , and for pharmaceutical companies and medical device companies, this is great because they're gonna get approval in one country and gonna get instant recognition in another country. Eventually, that's gonna happen probably in five years or something, but they're working towards that path. So let's talk about Chile. What , what do you guys think about Chile and its potential and what's happening there? Um , Marcel, let's start with you

Marcel Gradidge: 35:58

Just coming . Um, so for me , um, that, that is the big tipping point , um, you know , uh, for Chile , uh, is that Pacific Alliance, you know, just the ability for, you know, to drive like open and inclusive , um, you know , environment for free trade. Um, it just leads to business, right? I know the, the pharmaceutical companies that, you know, we deal with, some of them don't have representation in Chile today, but they are considering it. I know that, you know, we , uh, we have been part of some of that analysis around, you know , um, in fact, one of our global pharmaceutical companies is actually considering setting up an actual office in Chile. So, you know, that's, that is like, I think across the four countries, you've got like, what, over 200 million people , uh, with quite a good , uh, you know, average , uh, per capita, you know , income. So, you know, definitely. And then if you think about, you know, one thing that many people aren't considering, or sorry, companies are considering, but uh, you know, folks aren't considering, is that the population in, in these countries is younger. So, you know, in Chile , um, you know, you are looking at a much younger demographic than say Japan, you know. So then, you know, when, when companies are looking at opportunities, you, you have like a, a , a , a political or , uh, sorry , uh, an administration that wants to drive, you know, that modern approach to business. They're trying to drive, you know, political stability. And then with that , you have , uh, you know, a consumer base that is younger, the, you know, per capita income is increasing, and you have quite a lot of, you know, like a , a quarter of a , you know, a billion people that you can provide services to. So for me, I've, you know, I, I've considered it a , a area of focus. Um, I know that for our clients in the pharmaceutical companies, it differently is

Julio Martinez: 38:09

Okay. Excellent. Where about you? Oh , Goam .

Gautam Narayan: 38:13

Yeah. Similar. You know, the , the funny thing is when you think about that region in Argentina, Chile, y where the southern cone

Julio Martinez: 38:18

Region, the south, yeah.

Gautam Narayan: 38:19

Mm-Hmm. <affirmative> . The , the overwhelming , uh, thing that people think about as Argentina is the first thing people Mm-Hmm , <affirmative> most people think about, right? In terms of just, that's where the brain goes, because that's where the business is . It's the biggest economy, so on and so forth. So I almost <crosstalk>

Julio Martinez: 38:33

Beautiful city as well . Eno Aires is such a charming place. Yeah,

Gautam Narayan: 38:37

Charming place. So I almost feel like , uh, Chile has the opportunity to come out of the shadows of Argentina a little bit and, and present itself as a destination where you can do business just as well, if not better, than Argentina. So , oh , yes , me market , market gets a little bit more saturated, things get a little bit more difficult. I think , uh, Chile will, will reap the benefits of that. And I think , uh, they will, I think naturally be more assertive and opportunistic over the next few years , uh, to establish themselves as more of a destination and for that matter, y ago . Right? I think you mentioned Columbia as a BPO destination. Yor has been doing that very well .

Julio Martinez: 39:16

Oh , really ? Okay.

Gautam Narayan: 39:17

Uh , for a while now. So a lot of companies are moving their , uh, call center operations to Uruguay instead , uh, other parts of Asia. So I , I think overall positive momentum,

Julio Martinez: 39:30

Yeah. And, and , um, going back to my comment about the article that I just finished about Chile , uh, I have a column of med device online and articles about different topics in Latin America. And , uh, I just sent the article this morning to the editor, and so Chile is very fresh in my mind, and they have the top human development index of Latin America is considered the Switzerland of Latin America. It's quite an extraordinary country. And, and there is some history behind that, that we can talk about that later over a few beers someday . But , uh, it really is about what's , because Pinoche almost 20 years of dictatorship, and the Chicago boys, you , I'm sure you guys know what I'm talking about , uh, they play a major role , uh, in, in, in, in building , uh, what Chile is today. Um, and , uh, they also have the second biggest , uh, income per capita highest , I'm sorry, in income per capita in Latin America after Panama, just a little , uh, bit , uh, higher than Panama. So it's, it's quite an extraordinary country. It's not a third world country as many people think. It's a second world country in terms of infrastructure and in terms of policies and , and , and , and order the police force, the way people drive, the way people behave, you, you feel like you are more in , uh, in Europe or in the United States than in Latin America. Awesome. So let's talk about , uh, Brazil or Argentina. Um, you can speak <laugh>, Marcel , or both of them at the same time. We are , we're running outta time.

Marcel Gradidge: 41:02

Uh , so I , I can speak to Argentina. I think , um, you know, I think the , the, you know, the currency fluctuation has always been, you know, one of the concerns when it comes to international business. Um, and, you know, the work that we've done with this pharmaceutical company has tried to , uh, prevent , um, you know, other countries manipulating that currency fluctuation. So I think stability of the currency has always been part of Argentina's , um, you know , uh, area of focus. And I think, you know, business practice, you know, like very mature and very knowledgeable people. Um, but I , I think, you know, part of the challenge has always been, you know, just that currency fluctuation. So , uh, but I know , um, you know, it is like we deal with one of the biggest distributors in Argentina and, you know, just the level of , uh, business interaction that we have with folks in the region is , is extremely enlightening and positive. And I think , uh, you know, the focus on, you know, folks wanting to contribute to towards the success of, you know, like I said before, being engaged with this global pharmaceutical company has been certainly acknowledged by our clients. You know, our clients have said, wow, didn't even know that, you know , um, business was conducted , uh, so formally and so well in this region. So it was positive to see, I think , um, you know, I guess the commonality in the region is that, you know, when you're dealing with the US language is not necessarily a barrier. 'cause there is a large Spanish , um, uh, you know, language components in the us so it makes business very easier to deal with. Um, and I think, you know, the, the learning and the ability to, to wanna grow has been, you know, certainly acknowledged by our clients.

Julio Martinez: 43:08

Yeah. And, and just a quick point , um, I was interviewing somebody the other day here in the podcast, and they were telling me about the level of sophistication of the shooters in Argentina, in Mexico , uh, in Brazil as well. Uh, they said not so much in Colombia , not so much in Chile, but in Argentina you find some top distribution companies. I mean, very well structured, very professional. Yeah. Anyway, Goam , what do you have in mind in terms of , uh, Brazil, Argentina?

Gautam Narayan: 43:41

Yeah, Argentina. I, I would agree with Marcel and what you said, Julio, they, you know, and the business results prove it , at least based on everything that I have done with Argentina. They're consistently performing at a level that is above , uh, some of the other countries in the region in terms of how they do business. And it , it tells in the business results, things are easier, KPIs are better, metrics are better. It's just, it's well put together, right? So I think Argentina continues to be just a , a safe bet for the region that that will continue to grow. Uh, Brazil, I think the opportunities are endless, right? It's, it's a challenging market because of how diverse it is and various socioeconomic , uh, things that are happening. And there's also the perception that the political situation is a little bit more unstable than people might be comfortable with or businesses might be comfortable with. So that continues to, I think, create some hesitancy in terms of how much people , uh, companies invest in certain things in Brazil. Look, the , the opportunity is there, right? I mean, it's, it's , it's a huge economy and , uh, it , they, they, they're going to grow, right? But I think that the perception on some of these other areas makes it a little bit more challenging for Brazil specifically. Uh , and then you just have the natural challenges with supply chain. When you think about Brazil, big country, different markets, you know, and trying to get into some of the more remote regions. It's, it's, it's different, right? But that's also resulting in some really hyper localized , innovative solutions that you'll find only in Brazil and nowhere else. 'cause it's applicable only there. So it's creating some really interesting , uh, uh, solutions that, that , uh,

Julio Martinez: 45:30

200 and something million people. Yeah . And it's a different language than, than the rest of the regions Portuguese. So anyway, guys, we're close to the end of the show. I, I, I don't think anybody else on the internet is talking about this topics. I really, really enjoy our conversation. I think it's very enlightening to companies when they wanna learn about Latin America, to hear from experts like you from, and , and , and hopefully they wanna do business with you guys, but Slalom. And so Thomas , you , uh, did a great commercial for SI like that. And , uh, hopefully , uh, this , uh, this podcast is a , is a platform for, for you guys and for companies to learn about LA what Latin America has to offer. So thank you so much and I look forward to being in touch.

Thomas Celerier: 46:17

Thank you. Yeah . Thank you, Julio . Thank , yeah . I look forward to , uh, slalom in one of this country , uh, very soon.

Julio Martinez: 46:24

Excellent. Bye.